Tuesday, December 15, 2009
When I got copies of the picture again, and a second picture which came from Devil John's home from his grandson, they were identified over and over again as pictures of Susannah Wright. It made me go back and try to see what the sources were first of the picture of Sarah. I couldn't find anything on where the people who had it posted as Sarah had been given their identification. Personally, I would like for it to be Sarah so I would have pictures of two grandmothers rather than one. But my sources -- which I name -- have told me that they are both of Susananah Wright, the wife of Joel Wright and mother of Joel Ellis Wright.
I have been told that the second picture is Susan Wright. Her granddaughter gave me a copy of the ONLY picture ever taken of Big Susan, the daughter of Joel and Susannah. She has original copies of Betsy and Thaney Houston, Annie Houston Mullins and many other old family pictures which are now all over the web. And so far, the identification that I have seen has pretty much stayed with them. I hate to see things mislabeled and misidentified.
Recentley I have seen many of my family on ancestry.com trees who are totally wrong. They are even folks not generations and generations back, but ones I knew myself who are attached to wrong parents, or pictures which have had the names changed on them even though they show that they were taken from family trees where the identification was there and correct.
You can't make people change things that you know are wrong. You can't stop information that is incorrect from being posted. What it proves is that you always have to do your own investigation and make your own decisions about the information that you put in your family tree.
In the case of these pictures, I have lost a relationship with a cousin over their identification. He thinks I am on par with the devil for posting this story and spreading wrong information. I have just posted whatI learned and my sources. He has never been able to give me his sources which would change my mind. He told me one source and then backed off of it. He identified the picure first as Charity Wright, then as Big Susan -- both of which I know are wrong. I even have on tape the woman he says who identified the pictures for him saying he visited her home but she gave him no pictures. She gave them to another cousin who then shared them with him. Later, he said that the picture is Mattie Humphrey Wright, wife of Devil John. He uses another family website as a source -- one in which he told me was incorrect and not to be trused. Now I am in that category for him. And this has made him so mad he asked me to take any pictures I had taken of him off my stories and to not mention or imply that we had ever worked together. The pictures I removed. And it is easy to say we didn't work together because we didn't. We visited some graves together which I enjoyed very much, but they were ones I had general directions to and would have visited eventually. We never wrote anything together. We obvisoulsy couldn't have even a discussion about these two pictures. I am just posting what I found from my research. I am not bothered that he disagrees. I haven't been able to change my mind about who the pictures are because he has changed his identification at least three times and he hasn't been able to say who identified them.
So, look at the pictures. Read why I say they are who they are. Make your own decisions. I haven't had my cousin Almy ever steer me wrong on my identifications. This is my work. If you disagree, more power to you. Here is the original article:
We have always been told that there was Indian in the Wright family. The story that I did on Mary Wright and her Indian doll, plus her looks in some of the pictures her granddaughter, Daisy, had would support that. The story that Mary handed down to Daisy was that Joel went from Virginia to North Carolina for an apprentiship. He met an Indian woman and married her. She was given the English name of Susannah. She had no English name of Bates or Bentley as is sometimes given to her.
In another version of the story she was an Indian who was in or near Letcher county, but basically the same story.
Her daughter, Margaret, only spoke the Indian language. That is why she was termed "idiotic" by the census takers, who could not understand her.
Others say she was Dutch.
Jesse Wright, Bad John and Kinky Haired Sam were brothers. Their paternal grandparents were Joel Martin Wright and this Susannah. Their maternal grandparents were John Wallis Bates and Sarah Waltrip.
This picture has always been identified to me as Sarah Waltrip.
When Bad John died, one of his grandsons moved into his home. There was a bag of pictures left which belonged to John. In it, two were identified as Susannah Wright -- one a little older than the other. One of them is the picture I had previously been told was Sarah Waldrup. The grandson positively identified this picture as Susannah.
Here is the second picture of Susannah.
For myself, I have had the Sarah Waldrup picture ID for 40 years. I can't account for its source except from the internet and those who posted it in books which I had purchased.
Alma Meade Bolling, a great granddaughter of the first Susannah, also identified the two pictures as both being Susannah Wright. She is the daughter of Rhodes Meade and Lavina Houston. Rhodes was the son of James Madison Meade and Letitia Wright. Letitia was the daughter of Susannah "Big Susan" Wright. Her father is unknown. Big Susan was the daugther of Susan and Joel Wright.
Alma said her grandmother, Big Susan, looked just like the first Susannah. She said the pictures were not pictures of Sarah Waldrup and that they were not pictures of Big Susan.
So, from Alma, Mary, the grandsons of Devil John and names on the pictures themselves, these are two pictures of Susannah, the wife of Joel Wright.
Sunday, October 18, 2009
I don't know the name of this cemetery, but I call it the Little Baker Cemetery. It is at Millstone, Kentucky up the left hand fork, past Lucky Fulton's home on the left before you reach the Baker Cemetery. As the paved highway stops you can either follow a small graveled road or go into the creek bed, which is also a road. This cemetery is just as you get onto the graveled road. I took this picture looking back where the paved road was.
This is the grave of Mary Baker. Doesn't sound like a connection, does it? She is the great granddaughter of Thomas & Hannah Bentley. Their daughter Margaret Bentley, sister to Daniel Bentley, married William Yonts. Their son Solomon Yonts married Sarah Elliott. Their daughter was Mary S. "Polly" Yonts. She was born in 1835 in Perry County. She married Elijah Willis Baker, thus becoming Mary Baker. Her death certificate says that she died of interstitial nephritis. Nancy June asked me about causes of death that repeated in the family. Nephritis is one that repeats over and over in the family. Her death certificate also says that she was being buried at the "James Baker" cemetery.
Elijah Willis Baker was the husband of Mary Yonts Baker. He was born in 1832 in Viriginia. His parents were Henry W. Baker and Mary Catherine Privett. He was a Methodist preacher. He died of a fever in 1907.
This is the grave of Hellen Baker born in 1905 and died in 1906. I can't find who Hellen's parents were.
This is the grave of Clarence D. Baker who was born on August 17, 1910 and died on August 30, 1910. He was the son of Ed and Jane Bentley Baker. Jane was Surilda Jane Baker, the daughter of John Martin Bentley & Malinda Addington. She was a sister to Otho Bentley.
This is another Clarence D. Baker. He was born in 1887 and died in 1902 at age 15. Elijah Willis Baker and Mary Yonts were his grandparents. His father was Solomon Emery "S. E." or "Bud" Baker. His mother was Hortense Lee Friley. Bud was an attorney. In 1882 he was appointed to a clerkship to the Department of the Interior in Washington, D C. He and Hortense divorced. He remarried in 1894. The children were with him in the 1900 census with his new wife, Helen C. Salyers. Hortense married again in 1901 to Joseph Coleman Reynolds. She had five more children.
Thelma Baker was born June 12 1904 and died December 12, 1906. I don't know who her parents are at this time.
Wednesday, September 23, 2009
The thing Kris saw right away and probably what the American Society objects to is the lineage goes all the way back to Adam and Eve.
Now at the Bates reunion Rhonda brought up the name Clement Bates as the first Bates in America. I had our line back to Joseph, the son of Joseph, the son of Joseph, but short of Clement. So I went looking for the leads that Rhonda had given.
Then I took another look at the Young line. Remember them? John Wallis Bates, the father of Martin Van Buren Bates, was the son of William Bates and Margaret Young. For years I had known that Margaret was the daughter of Robert & Mary Young and the granddaughter of John Young and Elizabeth Lnu. I think Lnu is such an unusual name, but we have it in several lines.
This time I was able to go back on John Young. His parents were Andrew Lamont Young and Mary Adair. The next in line was Sir John Lamont and Mary Young. And guess what? It went all the way back to Adam and Eve.
This time I got a reason for it. Most Irish families come from a small group of Irish who were ruled by Kings, so most families go back to Kings. They did not just become King by birth. It had to be the best person (or the one who survived the battle or bloodbath) to be king. There were different kingdoms around, but some tried to lay claim to being the King of Ireland as a whole territory. Part of their custom was to memorize their lineage. They would not write it down and certain people were set aside to accompany Kings in Battle to be able to report how they performed and who survived. They never wrote the history down. Here is what the article by Kate Montressor said:
Traditionally, most Irish families sprang from a small number of Irish chiefs.
As families multiplied, each person was required to know his relationship to the
ruling family. The oldest Irish names were personal names, later becoming
surnames. The Seannachies (the clan bards or storytellers) were the official
keepers of genealogical data. They didn't write anything down, for fear the
knowledge would get into the wrong hands and be used against them. For hundreds of years, their legacy was oral, committed to memory and passed down through the generations. This was a coveted task and taken very seriously; death was the penalty for mistakes.
I don't know if they let women be Seannachies, but I think that's where I would have fit in the past. Maybe I was in a past life and that's why I have the urgency to know everything that I can about every generation.
Tuesday, September 22, 2009
The first thing we saw when we parked was a coach drawn by two horses. We took a ride.
Erika and Claire.
Of course Lana has used a camera for years. I told her she should take some shots of our hotel room. She took pictures of the toliet, the sink, the bed, the door to the circuit breakers, the kitchen, the floor and then a few of herself in the mirror.
Saturday, September 19, 2009
This is the table that was set up with items for the memorial for Elinda Bates Wing and for pictures and info that Rhonda brought about Martin Van Buren Bates.
This is Elinda's husband, Stephen Wing, and her son, Nick.
Our cousin, Rhonda Turner, heads up the Bates dinner working with the festival organizers in Seville. She lives in Knoxville, Tennessee but keeps up with everyone thru emails, phone and snail mail.
At last night's dinner she gave us some history that she had learned about our Bates family. Her research shows that the first Bates in America was Clement Bates who came over on the ship Elizabeth and settleed in Massachusetts abot 1635. His wife was named Ann, and they had 5 children. She also told us about other interesting Bates family members and ones she has an inkling about but haven't quite pinned down their place in the family.
I had not heard the name Clement before although I knew that there were some in the Bates Family of Old Virginia who believed the Massachusetts Bates were part of our line and others who did not accept that. I thought everything Rhonda said was interesting and can't wait to follow the research she has done.
Rhonda's mother accompanied her this year. Rhonda says they are also best friends. I thought the definitely looked more like sisters rather than mother and daughter.
A change this year was that the dinner was held in the Westfield Town Hall rather than the Baptist Church that the Bates attended during their time in town. Rhonda said the organizers have their eye on another site for next year so keep in touch with Rhonda so you will know where to go for the dinner. She needs to have a headcount so they know how many to prepare the dinner for. It was $10 this year, but a great value since it covers the rent -- if any, the drinks, dinner and dessert. The volunteers who serve and set up everything are invaluable and make it possible for us to concentrate on getting to know our Bates relatives.
Rhonda also planned some games and we found out who had the largest shoe size in the men and women as well as who was the tallest and oldest family members to attend. Rhonda's research told us that the Captain was a size 19 and Anna was a 16 (correct me if I remembered that wrong, Rhonda). Our winner was a size 14 in the men's but he just barely came to six feet tall.
It's appropriate that the last blog I wrote was about the passing of Elinda Bates Wing. She attended the dinner and festival last year and passed away. Rhonda arranged a short memorial service to rememer Elinda. Elinda's husband Steven Wing and her son, Nick were in attendance last year as well as this year. Nick wrote several songs in the year before his mother's passing and after. He put them on a CD for us and also played one of the songs in person. It was a very moving tribute. Steven talked about his love for Elinda and her passing and the scholarship and internship that had been set up in Elinda's honor at the University of Kentucky.
Among other relatives that were at my table were the McIntires. They and the Wings all come through Jesse Bates, a brother to Martin Van Buren Bates. One of the McIntire couples lives in Centerville near by brother and the other in Monroe. Diana McIntire is also a Mullins relative.
I didn't get a chance to talk to them, but I also heard the names Tackett and Rhonda's mother has married again after the death of her first husband and is a Webb. So there were other connections family wise that could have been there.
I also wanted to show you something I came across this year. Last year I showed you the picture of a ring that the Historical Society in Seville put out which is a size 22 --- the size Martin Van Buren Bates wore. Dad came across a ring at a yard sale in Ohio which he bought because of the size. The lady who had it said it came from someone who was in a circus. Hmmmmm.
I am hoping the lady who actually had one of Anna's rings is at the festival. I would like to compare sizes with her. I doubt this was one of Anna's, but it could be another of those rings that was sold at the circus as a souvenier. I like it regardless.
Off to the festival....... I will post pictures when I get back this afternoon.
Tuesday, June 9, 2009
Tonight I received a note from Rhonda advising me that one of our Bates cousins, Elinda Anne Bates Wing, has passed away. I had to ask Rhonda how Elinda was connected to the Bates family since she is not one of the family members that I had conversations with last year.
Elinda was born a Bates.
Elmer was the son of Robert Bates and Malinda Smith.
Robert was the son of Benjamin Bates & Margaret Lucas.
Benjamin was the son of Jesse Bates and Elizabeth Asbury.
Jesse was the son of John Wallis Bates and Sarah Waldrup.
Jesse was a brother to Eliza Agnes Bates, my g-g grandmother and Captain Martin Van Buren Bates, my second great granduncle. That makes Elinda my fourth cousin or third cousin once removed for uncles and aunts like Jerry, Fred etc.
I thought maybe some of you all might have grown up with, gone to school with or known Elinda before she moved from Kentucky.
Here is the information that Rhonda included in her email.
TO ALL: I regret to inform you of a family member from the Bates
Reunion 2008 has passed away. I wanted to get this out to all of you
that has emails about Elinda Ann Wing. She was at the Bates Reunion in
Seville, OH last year. Our group picture is
attached. Elinda is in black with the scarf standing next to her
husband, Stephen in the blue jacket. Nick is in kneeling in front of
them. Please send a memorial to Stephen and Nick and his family during
this time. She will be greatly missed. Forward this
to anyone else if you would like.
To send a
sympathy note, please go the website.
of you that would like to send sympathy cards, may do so to the following
Mr. Stephen Wing
Mr. Nick Wing
2824 Alling Drive
Elinda Ann Wing was a direct
descendant of Captain Martin Van Buren Bates.
(Karen's Note: She is not a direct descendant of Captain Bates. The Bates had two children, both of whom died. She was a great great grandniece of Captain Bates. There are no direct descendants of Captain Bates.)
Published June 06 2009 -
Obituary: Elinda Wing
Elinda Ann Wing, 59, of
Twinsburg, Ohio, died June 3, 2009, in Twinsburg.
her husband, Stephen Wing, Twinsburg; two sons, Thaddeus Wing, Columbus, Ohio,
and Nicholas Wing, Twinsburg; one daughter, Emily Wing, Georgia; two sisters,
Vickie Ellinger, Columbus, and Janie Robinson; and two granddaughters.
Visitation will be from 6 to 8 p.m. Thursday and 10 to 11 a.m. Friday
at the United Methodist Church of Macedonia, Macedonia, Ohio.
The service will be 11 a.m. Friday at the United Methodist Church of
Macedonia. Burial will be in the Macedonia cemetery, Cleveland, Ohio.
Memorials are requested to the Karen Wyckoff Rein in Sarcoma Foundation
Elinda Ann Wing
ELINDA ANN WING, age 59, of Twinsburg, a nationally respected social worker, poet, photographer, singer, joke-teller and travel enthusiast passed away from sarcoma cancer on June 3, 2009. Wing was born in Whitesburg, Kentucky and grew up in Logan, Ohio. She graduated from Ohio University and earned her Master's in
social work from the University of Kentucky. She was the clinical director for
Family Solutions in Cuyahoga Falls until 2002. More recently, she consulted on a
volunteer basis with civic organizations such as the Office of Disability
Employment Policy and the National Council on Aging (NCOA). The NCOA will offer
an award next year in her honor to a business that performs cutting-edge work in
mature worker issues. She is survived by her husband, Stephen; sons, Thaddeus
and Nicholas; daughter, Emily; granddaughters, Alexis and Lillian; and sisters,
Vickie Ellinger and Janie Robinson. Her family will receive visitors at the
United Methodist Church of Macedonia at 1280 E Aurora Rd., Macedonia, on
Thursday, June 11, 2009 from 6pm to 8pm and Friday, June 12, 2009 from 10am to
11am. The memorial service will be held immediately following the morning
visitation. In lieu of flowers, the family requests that expressions of sympathy
be in the form of contributions to the Karen Wyckoff Rein in Sarcoma Foundation
at http://www.reininsarcoma.org/. Arrangements By CHARLES R.
Wednesday, June 3, 2009
My husband, Rodney Tackett, worked in the mines at Weeksbury. One day a man he worked with from Long Fork said, "Rodney I bet I did something yesterday that you have never done." Rodney asked him what it was. He said "I picked up and hauled a casket up Long Fork in my truck, and the man it was for was sitting in the front seat of my truck." Now, of course, my husband thought he was kidding. Then he told my husband the man's name was Booker Wright.
My husband told the man that Booker Wright was his wife's grandpa, and it was true he did have his casket and Uncle Ed's caskets made and kept them in the upstairs in their house.
I am not sure if they were buried in them or not, but there was one left in his upstairs for years after Booker died. My husband wouldn't even stay all night with
Uncle John while the casket was there, but that was my grandpa for you. God
Tuesday, April 28, 2009
During the third grade, my teacher, and cousin, Mary Jo Craft got married and moved with her husband. They didn't hire a replacement. We were moved to the principal's, Mrs. Wormsly, 7th grade class. Each third grade student was assigned to a seventh grade student and we sat in the seat with them.
Clyde, one of the seventh grade students, often couldn't do the work that the seventh grade students did. He would get up and go to the first or second grade class and work there. One day Mrs. Wormsly rang the bell to announce that it was time for recess. We all went out to play. When we went back inside, Clyde wasn't in his seat. Mrs. Wormsly sent me to look for him in the other classrooms. I couldn't find him. The teacher sent a couple of the older boys to go hunt for Clyde and to be sure to check the cave up on the hill beside the school. We all knew that the cave was off limits. They came back and still couldn't find Clyde. Mrs. Wormsly decided that he must have decided to go home.
Later, one of the boys held up his hand and asked permission to go to the restroom. He came running back in to the classroom and said he had found Clyde. We had outhouses instead of inside restrooms. The boy said there was a voice coming out of the outhouse hole, "Help me. Help me. I've fallen in." Poor old Clyde had stood up on the wooden double seater and was so slim that he fell right in. A couple of the boys got a rake and stuck it down in the hole. When they pulled him out, they threw him in the creek that ran between the school and the Coal Company owned Sweet Shop. After drying off some, Clyde DID go home.
There were two outhouses--one for girls and one for boys. After Halloween, when we came back to school we would never know where we would find the outhouses. Once some pranksters had some how lifted them and placed them on the roof of the school.
As an elementary school fifth grade teacher for five years, and an elementary school librarian for over 29 years, I had many story times. Instead of reading a story to the class, I would often tell them stories of the mountains that I love. Disappearing Clyde was the most requested story.
Monday, April 27, 2009
Joel Ellis Wright & Eliza Agnes Bates
Mack and Linda at the cemetery where Joel Ellis Wright & Eliza Agnes Bates are buried.
I had general directions on where to find Joel and Eliza's graves. It so happened while I was with Mack and Linda on our hunt for Aunt Annie's grave that Mack remembered it was a cemetery I was looking for. It was on our way to the first Potter cemetery we were going to visit. He remembered and pulled in to show me.
Eliza, Joel & SusanEliza, Joel & Susan.
It is on 119. If you are coming from Kona and make a left onto 119 going toward Jenkins, there is a road on the left that is labeled "119 Circle." And it does just that circles around a group of houses along the road and comes back out again to main 119. In about the middle of the circle up behind the first row of houses is a small cemetery.
Joel Ellis Wright's original stone is in one piece. There is a large footstone at the back of this grave with the initials "J.W."
The Letcher County Historical Society put in this marker in front of Joel's marker.
Eliza's stone is broken in two with the top part leaning against the original stone.
The historical society put in a marker for Eliza, too.
Susan Venters was actually Susan Mullins at her death. She was Susan Wright at her birth. Susan was the daughter of Joel and Eliza. Her stone used to be quite tall. It is broken and the top half is leaning against the base of the stone.
Susan first married Alexander Venters. They divorced. She then married Joshua Mullins, my great grandfather. They did not stay together, but did not divorce as far as I know. Susan is almost always referred to as "Susan Venters" even in places where her maiden name should be used. I wrote a blog about her which you can look for by using the box in the upper left hand corner and typing in her name. She is the one who tried to poison Joshua. I also followed Alexander to see where he went and I believe that is in the story, too. I was glad to find that Susan was buried by her parents.This is Susan's footstone. It, too, is behind her stone with the initials "S.V."This is the stone of Solomon Wright, the son of Joel and Eliza. He was killed in the Civil War. The Letcher County Historical Society put this marker up.There are quite a few other graves which are only marked with rocks for headstones and footstones. I don't know if anyone knows who might be in these graves or not. If it isn't set down somewhere, then we will probably never know who they were. I don't know the name of this cemetery. I have just called it C Joel Ellis Wright Cemetery in my albums.
Posted by Karen at 4/27/2009 02:13:00 AM 0 comments
Labels: Bates, Wright
Eliza, Joel & Susan
Eliza, Joel & Susan.
This is Susan's footstone. It, too, is behind her stone with the initials "S.V."
This is the stone of Solomon Wright, the son of Joel and Eliza. He was killed in the Civil War. The Letcher County Historical Society put this marker up.
There are quite a few other graves which are only marked with rocks for headstones and footstones. I don't know if anyone knows who might be in these graves or not. If it isn't set down somewhere, then we will probably never know who they were. I don't know the name of this cemetery. I have just called it C Joel Ellis Wright Cemetery in my albums.